Oppopinion -update: shipping economics

"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
04/30/2020 at 12:09 • Filed to: None

The story for those not following, I need to replace one of the nuts holding my subframe on: a special kind of nut (cage nut) that needs to be able to float as it cannot be acessed without cutting a hole in the floor, and it is necessary for frame alignment

I can’t find a nut that is supposed to fit, but given the thread sizes seem to match oer par number c122 seems to be the ticket

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/oer-c122

even though it isn’t for this year car. I am pretty sure they are at least similar enough to use as a replacement. Trouble is, price and shipping. It wont be here this weekend.

I could drive to pick it up from summit in ohio, 4 hr round trip. Hope the thing fits.

My car is otherwise ready to be test driven, for the first time in five years. I want this so bad I can feel it physically in my bones.

My other option would to just put a regular nut and washer in, and tack it down. Hope when the subframe comes off later, I dont need to re align it.

I can’t make a decision, I’m too emotionally close to this. What does oppo think I should do? Forget the “proper” nut? Cannonball it on saturday? Just order the thing and be patient? If you are convincing, I might just actually listen and not do a dumb thing!

Variables to consider: cost of a tank of gas, overnight shipping, my time, my level of concer, my potential future headache, possibility of buying the wrong part because nobody lists bolt dimensions online for some reason.

UPDATE: Turns out, it costs much less to ship ovenight from wherever jegs warehouse is (California I think) than from Ohio to Pennsylvania. Go figure. 20$ shipping vs the 10 it would be normally anyways. Still, 48$ for a nut is not exactly ideal, but I was able to confirm that at least its the right dimensions. I hope I can reuse my original cage, but worst case scenario I can tack in the new one. Ordered. My poor wallet.

DISCUSSION (29)

vondon302 > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 10:22

Ouch that’s a tough one so close but yet this.

Proper nut but if I were you I just might drive to Summit if you have the time.

MoCamino > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 10:24

It might not be the sane or responsible thing to do, but if it was me I’d have a really hard time not making the drive. If it was four hours one way....I probably wouldn’t do it. Four hours round trip? My wife would have to be pretty insistent to keep me from going.

But that doesn’t take the Coronapocolypse into account. Given the current situation, the right thing to do is have it shipped and be patient. With that said, I completely understand that “I’m so close” feeling. I’d have to find out what it would cost to have it shipped overnight. What would the gas to drive there cost versus the cost of shipping?

just-a-scratch > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 10:26

In that Summit link one of the comments says the C122 cage but is 5/8-11. Check on your existing nut.

I haven't used one of those before. Do you have pictures of where they are used?

My bird IS the word > just-a-scratch
04/30/2020 at 10:32

Kinja'd!!!

This should give you an idea at least. The bolt goes through the subframe, through a lower reinforcent in the floor, and exists in a hollow cavity between the reinforcement and the floor requiring me to cut a window to access it.

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 10:37

What’s the exact problem with the nut? Is it completely missing or just spun? If it isn’t missing and just being difficult, perhaps these ideas could help.

http://nastyz28.com/threads/dont-cut-your-floor-board-for-a-spun-cage-nut.246867/

http://nastyz28.com/threads/body-bushings-replacement-how-to-with-tips.251412/

Now if the nut is outright missing? I can’t seem to find any info on that. I’d probably be tempted to make the trip too. But what if it doesn’t work? Then what? You wasted the time to drive there only to see that it doesn’t work.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 10:39

You want this done right, so I would order the on e from Summit ...I know you are dying to get out there on the road, but I wouldn’t worry about the drive to go get it because:

A. Lockdown - we’re supposed to all be staying home as much as possible (though I can understand people taking their car for 15-20 minute drives here and there to give them exercise/keep batteries charged)
B. What’s a few more days as you’ve worked on it and waited this long?
C. As much as we all love driving, a 4hr trip for one bolt and back seems a bit much, also you don’t even know if it will fit for certain.

I know the fact you don’t know if it would fit means if it doesn’t fit when the order arrives, you are still stuck with more waiting, but again, you’ve already waited this long and want it done right. Just my $0.02 :)

DutchieDC2R > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 10:40

Its unhealthy how much Im recognizing myself in your debacle. Honestly? When it comes to these things (my car), I become a very impatient person and I'd probably be sitting in the car already, picking up the nut myself.

My bird IS the word > MoCamino
04/30/2020 at 10:43

I thought it was more, but it looks like it will be 30$ to next day ship it

just-a-scratch > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 10:43

It looks like the ‘ cage’ is just a bit of reinforcement of the sheet metal around the bolt. If you add a bit of reinforcement under a common hex bolt and welds them together, you might get the same or better e ffect . But that's a bit speculative on my part.

Future next gen S2000 owner > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 10:59

Take a bolt or nut that fits to Home Depot, Lowes..... Check the thread on their little thread thing in the bolt aisle. Call Summit to confirm thread on given part. Wait.

Doing it right always is always better in the end. Even if it takes a little longer.

Sovande > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 11:05

I h ave zero patience. Did you already cut the hole in floor (I seem to remember a pic)? If so, put a washer and a nut on there and a temporarily close up the hole. Then order the part and replace it when it arrives? Or drive to Ohio.

My bird IS the word > just-a-scratch
04/30/2020 at 11:22

The cage only serves to keep the nut from turning. It is not structural. The nut can move freely inside the cage but it cannot twist

My bird IS the word > Stapleface-Now Hyphenated!
04/30/2020 at 11:24

The threads in the nut are stripped, somehow. The act of removing the previous bolt must have damaged them.

My bird IS the word > Sovande
04/30/2020 at 11:26

Im trying not to butcher the cage that is in there, or my floor. Otherwise I totally would.

My bird IS the word > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
04/30/2020 at 11:27

Im going to do some phone sleuthing on my lunch break

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 11:27

If it were me, I’d cut the cage open and make a new large square nut out of 3/8" (or whatever) A36 steel. Cut square, drill hole, tap hole. Sure it won’t be heat-treated or otherwise grade 5 or above, but it gets you test-driving and isn’t really dangerous. Low carbon structural/plate is still plenty strong.

My bird IS the word > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
04/30/2020 at 11:30

Unfortunately I lack the tools, and the steel. I was thinking about fabbing something with a grade 8 nut and some washers, but idk if there is enough materials, proper dimensions

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 11:33

Good call, let us know what you find out!

just-a-scratch > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 11:37

The cage sounds like the kind of thing only used if you know there will not be access to it afterward. I don’t know if th e little bit of movement the nu t has will be important, but since you’re talking about alignment, it might be. Going with the cage nut would be even more important if you close up the window. Good luck on this. It's hard to wait out the final details on a project.

My bird IS the word > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
04/30/2020 at 12:03

Turns out its the correct size and thread pitch, for whatever reason it was cheaper to overnight from jegs than summit despite them being much, much closer to my house. 20$ shipped vs 10$ that it normally costs to ship. Made the decision for me.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 12:03

My doctrine is that anybody doing work on 30+ year old steel should probably have a set of taps. On the other hand, 5/8" is a less common size. On the other other hand, Ace Hardware should have one, I think. The only tricky thing is, they don’t have 3/8" plate lying around unless in the form of, I dunno, press plates or something.

You want to hear an extremely ghetto temporary solution? Use a 3/8" carriage bolt, in from the top. It’ll wedge into the nut, and since the problem with the nut is presumably being stripped instead of coming loose from the cage, it’ll hold, while sticking out not enough to interfere with pushing the floor back down... for now.

The 3/8 bolt is only about half the strength of a 5/8 bolt, but it’s far better than nothing.

Michael > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 12:24

I’m a Logistics/Packaging engineer, and when I read the title I thought to myself: This is my time to shine!

My bird IS the word > Michael
04/30/2020 at 12:31

Would be nice if someone could explain why summit wants 10$ more to ship such a small item 1000 less miles. Even if they have someone on the east coast...

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 12:33

Easy decisions are the best ones! :P

Michael > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 12:46

Contract rates with shippers (UPS/FedEx), cost of overhead for rush purchases (picking parts out-of-order-of-order- receipt), general greed (summit has approximately $10 more contempt for someone that needs a small part overnighted)

My bird IS the word > Michael
04/30/2020 at 12:50

Well, its an easy way to lose business.

Michael > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 13:58

In all actuality, small parts like this, they probably lose money after overhead, even with the upcharge for overnighting.

Order processing, picking, packaging, shipping, expedite, warehouse space is probably a bit more costly for the average small part than they’re charging - the results of that effort being when you want to buy that new full stainless exhaust system, you open their (Jegs) website first due to your good experience with the small parts.

Think of it as loss-leaders or coupons at grocery stores - you’re not just gonna pick up that yogurt, you’re gonna buy the stuff with markup, too.

dogisbadob > My bird IS the word
04/30/2020 at 15:14

wow that’s nuts

My bird IS the word > dogisbadob
04/30/2020 at 15:30

I see what you did there